Holy Grail of Golf Swings?

[jeffreycharris]

While there are many different ways to swing a golf club, it seems to me there are two main camps. One way to swing is more dependent on the hands and arms squaring the club face. The other way is to square the face with the body, or so-called "bigger muscles." Now this is just my observation, and I am sure it is more complicated and nuanced.

Anyway, can you really square the club face without any hand action? The reason I ask, is because I sure can't, and whenever I tried to play that way it was pathetic. When I am hitting it well (much thanks to Brian) I feel my left hand rolling, rather than the old flip. And I actually have to think about the roll, sometimes I concentrate on the left thumb to help with that roll. But what about this hit it with the big muscles stuff, with very little hand action around impact. Is that the Holy Grail, learning to control your club face with your body? Just a turn back and turn through? Or does it just feel that way? The hand action is so ingrained that some folks no longer feel it?

Is there merit to these more "around swings" with little roll over?

I am looking for the simplest way to hit the ball solid and straight. What kind of release is simplest for most people?

Sorry for rambling. . .
--Jeff

[jenhaoyen]

i can never square the club face by using my hand, i have to really use my body to shoot my arms out to square the club face.

[Kevin Shields]

Originally Posted by jeffreycharris

While there are many different ways to swing a golf club, it seems to me there are two main camps. One way to swing is more dependent on the hands and arms squaring the club face. The other way is to square the face with the body, or so-called "bigger muscles." Now this is just my observation, and I am sure it is more complicated and nuanced.

Anyway, can you really square the club face without any hand action? The reason I ask, is because I sure can't, and whenever I tried to play that way it was pathetic. When I am hitting it well (much thanks to Brian) I feel my left hand rolling, rather than the old flip. And I actually have to think about the roll, sometimes I concentrate on the left thumb to help with that roll. But what about this hit it with the big muscles stuff, with very little hand action around impact. Is that the Holy Grail, learning to control your club face with your body? Just a turn back and turn through? Or does it just feel that way? The hand action is so ingrained that some folks no longer feel it?

Is there merit to these more "around swings" with little roll over?

I am looking for the simplest way to hit the ball solid and straight. What kind of release is simplest for most people?

Sorry for rambling. . .
--Jeff

Whether you're trying to or not, you cannot square the clubface without hand action. Those players who are "taking the hands out of the swing" so to speak, have so much hand action already that any improvement in the face or the pivot feels to them like they are sqauaring the face with the body.

[jeffreycharris]

thanks for that reply Kevin. . .i guess the more "educated your hands" the less you "feel" you are using them. . .i know that when i am trying to really swing with my body, "the club doesn't work like a club"

thanks. . .thoughts from others are still appreciated

[aaron_lohan]

Originally Posted by Kevin Shields

Whether you're trying to or not, you cannot square the clubface without hand action. Those players who are "taking the hands out of the swing" so to speak, have so much hand action already that any improvement in the face or the pivot feels to them like they are sqauaring the face with the body.

These players who want to take the hands out of the swing should have them cut off, problem solved :-)

[golfer24]

Cetrifugal force will do most of the work in squaring the face if you allow it. I doubt a 12yr old could do anymore than allow the club to square up and no way is he consiously doing anything with his hands. A bit of a generalisation maybe but thats what i believe and i am sticking to it.

[Brian Manzella]

Originally Posted by jeffreycharris

While there are many different ways to swing a golf club, it seems to me there are two main camps. One way to swing is more dependent on the hands and arms squaring the club face. The other way is to square the face with the body, or so-called "bigger muscles." Now this is just my observation, and I am sure it is more complicated and nuanced.

It obviously is more nuanced, because i consider myself in neither camp.

Anyway, can you really square the club face without any hand action?[quote=jeffreycharris;131947]

Absolutely, positively not.

Of course, this whole "debate" is based on golfers who have the club too open at some point, and have to roll the heck out of their arms and hands, often still slicing it.

90% of hookers do not over roll!

Originally Posted by jeffreycharris

When I am hitting it well (much thanks to Brian) I feel my left hand rolling, rather than the old flip. And I actually have to think about the roll

Lots of golfer have to PRACTICE more roll then they use. David Toms and Bobby Crestman are two students of mine who do.

Originally Posted by jeffreycharris

But what about this hit it with the big muscles stuff, with very little hand action around impact.

Just about everybody who can play is using very little "hand action" (independent clubface rotation) through impact.

Originally Posted by jeffreycharris

Is that the Holy Grail, learning to control your club face with your body?

There is no "Holy Grail."

Golf is a mix, kinda like a good gumbo, and sometimes, when the shrimp ain't sweet, you have to alter the recipe.

Originally Posted by jeffreycharris

Just a turn back and turn through?

If it was, I would be selling Allstate.

Originally Posted by jeffreycharris

Or does it just feel that way?

To good players, probably yes.

Originally Posted by jeffreycharris

The hand action is so ingrained that some folks no longer feel it?

Like I said, the trick is no getting the clubface to come into the ball too open.

From what I can see a 1000fps, and on 6° 3D, there isn't a whole lot of roll going on in ANY swing.

Horizontal Hinge Action (the face staying vertical to the ground through the ball) just doesn't exist in the real world.

Originally Posted by jeffreycharris

Is there merit to these more "around swings" with little roll over?

The "roll over" these Methods profess to eliminate, happens so much past impact in the swings they criticize it is really just show biz.

Originally Posted by jeffreycharris

I am looking for the simplest way to hit the ball solid and straight. What kind of release is simplest for most people?

The one that works for them.

Remember, no one rolls it much during impact, and the finish swivel has to be "decided on" in the brain, long beofre impact.

Think about it.

[jeffreycharris]

thanks Brian. . .i certainly appreciate your thorough answer. . .i have fought an open club face for quiet sometime (get it too open in the backswing), and i thought i pretty much had it licked, but after a couple of months with very little golf and it's rearing its ugly head again, i suppose it's back to a little twistaway. . . and speaking of gumbo you sure serve up a nice helping around
here. . .thanks

[latiger12]

I think I square my club face with my hands, although my shoulders tend to rotate to quickly, which throws me over the top.

[birdie_man]

Lots of golfer have to PRACTICE more roll then they use. David Toms and Bobby Crestman are two students of mine who do.

Why does this help them?