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Thread: "That's all I can stands, and I can't stands no more" —Popeye

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    Default "That's all I can stands, and I can't stands no more" —Popeye

    Quote Originally Posted by mb6606 View Post
    ...(Tiger Woods has been on the)TSP since an early age!
    Quote Originally Posted by jenhaoyen View Post
    prove? i always thought (Tiger Woods) uses TSP.
    Here you guys go....

    All you have is your hand path, the force along that path, and torque about that path.


    That's your means for creating the proper D-Plane with the proper speed, for the desired shot.


    Golf Magazine Top 100 Teacher Brian Manzella's travels extensively teaching golfers and instructors, and his home base is English Turn Golf & Country Club in New Orleans, Louisiana

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    Senior Member golfbulldog's Avatar
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    Brian, is there advantage to keeping the right shoulder on TSP in the downswing, even if PP3 and sweetspot move onto elbow plane at impact?

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    Thanks B-Man! Also if you do a search under my name i posted up a swing sequence of Tiger from i think 2002 with yellow and blue lines that shows him double or single shifting. When i get home i can find it again.

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    No disrespect but I have to digress. Per 10-6-a "Where the right elbow touches the waist ......". Your yellow line is 10-12inches above the waist. Your blue line may also be
    be to high since Tiger has not reached the top of his swing. In 10-6-b #1 Dianne has the plane line under her armpit.

    Checking a recent live:
    [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8N-N4FEoMY[/media]
    Tiger has a drop/squat in his swing. Go to the 11 second mark - which is after the squat and his hands are still at the top. Put a pencil on the the true TSP plane and follow the down swing. Repeat for the correct elbow plane and clearly he is closer to the TSP.

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    Senior Member tongzilla's Avatar
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    For some reason there are people around who argue that it's biomechanically better to use the elbow plane. I'm not sure why.
    Leo

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    Default Here is more.

    All you have is your hand path, the force along that path, and torque about that path.


    That's your means for creating the proper D-Plane with the proper speed, for the desired shot.


    Golf Magazine Top 100 Teacher Brian Manzella's travels extensively teaching golfers and instructors, and his home base is English Turn Golf & Country Club in New Orleans, Louisiana

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    Quote Originally Posted by mb6606 View Post
    No disrespect but I have to digress. Per 10-6-a "Where the right elbow touches the waist ......". Your yellow line is 10-12inches above the waist. Your blue line may also be
    be to high since Tiger has not reached the top of his swing. In 10-6-b #1 Dianne has the plane line under her armpit.

    Checking a recent live:
    [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8N-N4FEoMY[/media]
    Tiger has a drop/squat in his swing. Go to the 11 second mark - which is after the squat and his hands are still at the top. Put a pencil on the the true TSP plane and follow the down swing. Repeat for the correct elbow plane and clearly he is closer to the TSP.

    That is why he Specified that the red line was the Elbow plane and the yellow line was shifting from the TSP to the EP.

    Oh yeah, his pattern isn't one of the two in the 7th either.
    Moving the hands towards the target....is death.

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    Senior Member jenhaoyen's Avatar
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    how do you get to the elbow plane?

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    I am going by the pictures of Dianne in 10-6-A,10-6-B,10-6-E and I see Tiger dropping his torso and not his hands.

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    Default Here we go.....

    Let me preface this by saying it is total waste of time talking about terminology, when trust me, I can teach without using one word of any golf "terminology." In fact, I do that a lot.

    Mac O'Grady, bless his heart, was smart enough to re-name everything for his system, so he didn't waste anytime like I am about to do.

    I am going to do the same thing, really soon.

    Let me also say that what I am going to say is 100% correct, and was the subject of a one hour presentation by Joe Daniels, president of TGM, LLC at the 2007 TGM Summit. I checked all of what I am about to say, not only with Joe, but it was agreed to be correct by all 25+ AI's in attendance.

    Quote Originally Posted by mb6606 View Post
    "Where the right elbow touches the waist ....Your yellow line is 10-12 inches above the waist."
    What is meant in this explanation in the book is simple. It is where the right elbow would touch the waist if you set up with the shaft on the elbow plane at address, if the elbow was bent enough to allow the right forearm to be on the same plane.

    It has nothing to do with elbow location at impact—especially nothing to do with elbow location at impact relative to any other body part, including the waist, which might be God knows where at this point.


    Quote Originally Posted by mb6606 View Post
    Your blue line may also be too high since Tiger has not reached the top of his swing. In 10-6-b #1 Dianne has the plane line under her armpit.
    Ah...nope.

    And I quote from the book:
    10-6-B. TURNED SHOULDER This reference point is primarily the
    point reached by the Right Shoulder after a Flat Backstroke Shoulder
    Turn. But any other controlled Shoulder Turn can also provide an ac-
    ceptable reference point.


    The POINT reached.

    It says NOTHING about Dianne's arm pit.

    Why would it?

    In the 10-6-E #I. Address picture, Dianne's clubshaft is pointing through her crotch.

    That ALSO has absolutely ZERO to do with what constitutes a "Hands Only" plane.

    That's why he didn't use an arrow on the "Hands Only" address position.



    I made the insides of the arrows red so you could find them easier.

    1. Elbow Plane - The arrow is on the address position because, like I said previously, the "Elbow Plane" is where the Elbow (would) touch the waist at Address.

    2. Turned Shoulder Plane - The arrow is on the top-of-the-backswing position, because the reference point is at the top of the swing, for crying out loud. The fact that the plane runs under Dianne's armpit means absolutely nothing, because, mainly, different set-up waist bends would have the darn plane going every which way through here torso.

    3. Squared Shoulder Plane - The arrow is in both pictures because the plane angle is set at address, and maintained on the backswing.

    4. Turning Shoulder Plane - The arrow is in all three pictures because where ever the right shoulder is at the time, there is the moving plane angle.

    5. Hands Only Plane - The arrow is on the backswing picture only, because the only thing on plane with the shaft—or sweetspot plane—in this plane angle is the hands, and even just an impact location of those are acceptable reference point.


    Quote Originally Posted by mb6606 View Post
    Tiger has a drop/squat in his swing.
    Hopefully, so does everyone else with a high head at address.

    That had NOTHING to do with any plane angle except the TURNING shoulder plane.

    .................................................. ....

    So what?

    So, I just wasted an hour putting this thread together, which will be marketed against by folks who think the book is the gospel according to Luke.

    That is why, this is my last post of this kind ever.

    (I'm working on new terms tonight )
    All you have is your hand path, the force along that path, and torque about that path.


    That's your means for creating the proper D-Plane with the proper speed, for the desired shot.


    Golf Magazine Top 100 Teacher Brian Manzella's travels extensively teaching golfers and instructors, and his home base is English Turn Golf & Country Club in New Orleans, Louisiana

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