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Thread: Ben Hogan's Takeaway

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    TJE
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    Default Ben Hogan's Takeaway

    Does anyone agree that Hogan's left hand appears to be very active during his waggle and takeaway. His left wrist cock seemingly created more by creating torque with the Fingers in his left hand (TGM #2 PP) rather than by bending his right arm. In fact his right arm appears to bend only to allow a powerful transfer of momentum and loading into his right side on the backswing. When you guys talk about STT are we talking about a left hand and arm action thus a feeling moving up from the left hand to the left shoulder / the left shoulder doing the "taking away"? I keep running across references to the left wrist cock being created only by the right elbow bending and that the left arm is inert but I see Hogan doing something more dynamic and it's something I do in my own backswing to stress the shaft. It's like throwing a chain back over your shoulder with an active left wrist, without letting the chain collapse in space.
    TJE
    New York, NY

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    Senior Member tongzilla's Avatar
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    Well if that Hogan takeaway is below plane, then Snead's is very below plane. And Palmer.
    Leo

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    Hogan made a take away with hands, arms, shoulders and a little hips. He had more in than up with the sweet spot path during the take away move so his sweet spot path for the back swing is what I call on the low side. Kenny Perry’s sweet spot path in the take away has more up than in during the take away move so his sweet spot path for the back swing is what I call on the high side.

    The great thing about using the sweet spot path instead of shaft planes is you will see there are MANY sweet spot paths one can take to the top of the back swing and MANY sweet spot paths on can take on the down swing.

    It is much easier to change a sweet spot path than shaft planes as you will see a total motion of the sweet spot path on the back swing and the down swing. With shaft planes you see positions and parts of the swing broken up with the shaft positions.

    With sweet spot paths you just try different paths until you find the one that will works for you on the back swing and the down swing.

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    TJE
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    Default Tongzilla

    What do You think about my post, any opinion? I know you've studied Hogan's swing. Specifically about what he used to cock the left wrist. Also do you understand what a STT is?
    Additionally: Whatever started moving first Feet (Ankles) must have been in there somewhere.

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    Default Well...

    At the Brian Manzella Golf Academy, we use our own terminology.

    Sometimes, for the sake of convenience, we use "Golfing Machine" terms.

    One day, ALL of our terminology will be our own. I have finished my own plane angle definitions and terms, using brand new reference points (for me).

    The TGM takeaway terms are just that, just one person's arbitrary definitions. And that person was a poor writer.

    So we just won't go there, because just like other TGM terms, they always wind up being twisted by folks for their own purposes.

    Now for Hogan's takeaway...

    I don't think he did ANY wrist cocking is his takeaway.

    ZERO.
    All you have is your hand path, the force along that path, and torque about that path.


    That's your means for creating the proper D-Plane with the proper speed, for the desired shot.


    Golf Magazine Top 100 Teacher Brian Manzella's travels extensively teaching golfers and instructors, and his home base is English Turn Golf & Country Club in New Orleans, Louisiana

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Manzella View Post
    At the Brian Manzella Golf Academy, we use our own terminology.

    Sometimes, for the sake of convenience, we use "Golfing Machine" terms.

    One day, ALL of our terminology will be our own. I have finished my own plane angle definitions and terms, using brand new reference points (for me).

    The TGM takeaway terms are just that, just one person's arbitrary definitions. And that person was a poor writer.

    So we just won't go there, because just like other TGM terms, they always wind up being twisted by folks for their own purposes.

    Now for Hogan's takeaway...

    I don't think he did ANY wrist cocking is his takeaway.

    ZERO.
    I agree. No wrist cock in the take away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tongzilla View Post
    Well if that Hogan takeaway is below plane, then Snead's is very below plane. And Palmer.
    When you say below plane what is the plane set at?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Hero View Post
    When you say below plane what is the plane set at?
    Depends on what camera angle and how much its distorted

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    Senior Member tongzilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJE View Post
    Does anyone agree that Hogan's left hand appears to be very active during his waggle and takeaway. His left wrist cock seemingly created more by creating torque with the Fingers in his left hand (TGM #2 PP) rather than by bending his right arm. In fact his right arm appears to bend only to allow a powerful transfer of momentum and loading into his right side on the backswing. When you guys talk about STT are we talking about a left hand and arm action thus a feeling moving up from the left hand to the left shoulder / the left shoulder doing the "taking away"? I keep running across references to the left wrist cock being created only by the right elbow bending and that the left arm is inert but I see Hogan doing something more dynamic and it's something I do in my own backswing to stress the shaft. It's like throwing a chain back over your shoulder with an active left wrist, without letting the chain collapse in space.
    TJE
    New York, NY
    Strict definition of STT is the arms don't do any lifting at all, so the club will get dragged way in.

    Hogan obviously had a bit of arm lifting in his backswing, although not a lot, compared to say, Fred Couples.

    Brian is right, basically, zero wrist cock for the first few feet of the backswing.

    Hogan's backswing is basically a one-piece-swinging-from-the-shoulder-sockets type backswing (as opposed to a robotic one piece takeaway), with a gradual turn of the left arm flying wedge.

    It is what it is an too many people try too copy to hard to copy Hogan's shape for what it's worth.
    Leo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Hero View Post
    Hogan made a take away with hands, arms, shoulders and a little hips. He had more in than up with the sweet spot path during the take away move so his sweet spot path for the back swing is what I call on the low side. Kenny Perry’s sweet spot path in the take away has more up than in during the take away move so his sweet spot path for the back swing is what I call on the high side.

    The great thing about using the sweet spot path instead of shaft planes is you will see there are MANY sweet spot paths one can take to the top of the back swing and MANY sweet spot paths on can take on the down swing.

    It is much easier to change a sweet spot path than shaft planes as you will see a total motion of the sweet spot path on the back swing and the down swing. With shaft planes you see positions and parts of the swing broken up with the shaft positions.

    With sweet spot paths you just try different paths until you find the one that will works for you on the back swing and the down swing.
    Concepts like this have helped my visualization of my swing tremendously
    Kevin Shields

    www.shieldsembroiderybydesign.com

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