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Thread: lie angles?

  1. #1
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    Default lie angles?

    ok, i know there are many tech and fitting gurus on this forum.

    what exactly does adjusting the lie angle accomplish?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dannyc View Post
    ok, i know there are many tech and fitting gurus on this forum.

    what exactly does adjusting the lie angle accomplish?
    It moves the top of the D-Plane "V" without YOU having to do all of it.
    All you have is your hand path, the force along that path, and torque about that path.


    That's your means for creating the proper D-Plane with the proper speed, for the desired shot.


    Golf Magazine Top 100 Teacher Brian Manzella's travels extensively teaching golfers and instructors, and his home base is English Turn Golf & Country Club in New Orleans, Louisiana

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Manzella View Post
    It moves the top of the D-Plane "V" without YOU having to do all of it.
    so "correct" lie angles make a reasonable hla easier to achieve?

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    Default Lie Angles affect the D-Plane

    Quote Originally Posted by dannyc View Post
    so "correct" lie angles make a reasonable hla easier to achieve?
    Yup.

    I have a 1000fps video of a student with a CLOSED FACE hitting a dead straight shot?

    Why?

    Because, the TRUE CLUBFACE was square!!

    How?

    The lie angle of the club was WAY TOO FLAT, and the "point" of the TRUE CLUBFACE was dead straight!!!

    And...

    The "point" of the TRUE CLUBFACE at separation, is the Top of the D-Plane "V."
    All you have is your hand path, the force along that path, and torque about that path.


    That's your means for creating the proper D-Plane with the proper speed, for the desired shot.


    Golf Magazine Top 100 Teacher Brian Manzella's travels extensively teaching golfers and instructors, and his home base is English Turn Golf & Country Club in New Orleans, Louisiana

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    so how do you find the correct lie angle?
    does it matter which part of the sole touches first (i.e., lie board)?

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    Maybe the center of the sole? I'm just guessing. If I really wanted to know, I might do a Google search on "Determining Correct Lie Angle Golf" or words to that effect.
    Steve

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    Quote Originally Posted by softconsult View Post
    Maybe the center of the sole? I'm just guessing.
    right, i understand that is the theory. however, if i hit a club off a lie board, i make a mark on the toe. if i go up to 4 upright, the mark is still in the same spot.
    Quote Originally Posted by softconsult View Post
    If I really wanted to know, I might do a Google search on "Determining Correct Lie Angle Golf" or words to that effect.
    we all know there is a lot of junk out there...that's why i ask here
    i tried to find something from tuxen, but to no avail. wishon says center of sole.

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    Lie angle needs to sometimes be developmental. For example, a person that comes over the top with a steep move will generally be "fit" for a more upright lie angle. That would be correct for their current swing but it inhibits their ability to change swing plane and still get good results.

    If they learn to shallow out the swing and swing more right, the heel will catch like crazy and they'll start hitting pull hooks. Now they would need to be fit all over again for this new swing.

    If they don't know this in advance, their original fit will make it impossible for them to trust any swing improvement they make. They make a bad swing and the ball close closer to the target when they make a good swing. Why make a good swing?

    I know some fitter that have taken a steep over the topper and gave them a practice club that was extremely fat and told them to learn how to hit the ball with this. Just by changing lie angle, the student made changes that improved their swing and impact alignments.

    Neat to watch but not for everyone.
    While uncertainty is an uncomfortable position, certainty is an absurd position - Voltaire

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    The reason I gave my answer in a sort of smart ass way, was that your question implied that you didn't understand lie angle, i.e. you hadn't done the work. Sounds like you have done some. I would think center of sole contact is a basic golf design truism, and not junk. The best way to measure and adjust is, of course, open to debate.

    If you hit club #1 making a mark on the toe, and you then hit a club that is 4 degrees more upright also on the toe, then 4 degrees up is not enough upright for your current swing.

    I love the explanation in the previous post. I have done the lie board thing more than a few times. I can adjust to a different lie angle in a few swings after seeing where the marks are located. Actually, making swings on grass, and analyzing divots, is in my opinion a better approach.

    I'm not saying you should do the analysis yourself. I thought I had my lie angles pretty much right on at 2 up. That's what I have used for years and years. During my lesson with Brian, at some point, he looked briefly at my 6 iron divots, and told me to go more upright. "How much more", said I. He replied, "At least 2 more, maybe even more than that. Enough to get those divots level." Then I asked about making the wedges a little flatter lie angle.
    He said something like, "Why would you do that?"
    Steve

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    Quote Originally Posted by ggsjpc View Post
    Lie angle needs to sometimes be developmental. For example, a person that comes over the top with a steep move will generally be "fit" for a more upright lie angle. That would be correct for their current swing but it inhibits their ability to change swing plane and still get good results.

    If they learn to shallow out the swing and swing more right, the heel will catch like crazy and they'll start hitting pull hooks. Now they would need to be fit all over again for this new swing.

    If they don't know this in advance, their original fit will make it impossible for them to trust any swing improvement they make. They make a bad swing and the ball close closer to the target when they make a good swing. Why make a good swing?

    I know some fitter that have taken a steep over the topper and gave them a practice club that was extremely fat and told them to learn how to hit the ball with this. Just by changing lie angle, the student made changes that improved their swing and impact alignments.

    Neat to watch but not for everyone.
    i'm not sure why you would want to change the vsp?

    if i take a wedge that is very upright, ball goes left with a thin "sliver" divot. lie tape has mark on toe.

    if i flatten out the lie angle, ball flies straighter with much better divot. lie tape still has mark on toe.

    how can this be?
    Last edited by dannyc; 11-30-2009 at 04:15 PM.

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