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Thread: How does Trevino not hook

  1. #11
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    So I guess Mr. Trevino was definately a HITTER who smashed the inside-aft quadrant of the ball with a strong pivot right? Not too much SWINGING in his stroke, huh? Is this accurate.

    Also, perhaps I was having trouble with the driver since I was using big long tees and teeing the ball way up. Did Trevino tee the ball low?
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  2. #12
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    quote:Originally posted by brianman

    Lee Trevino was always a good player. In the Marines, he was one of the best players in the service, but he was no match for the best player in the service—the VERY straight-hitting Orville Moody. Lee was always bothered by a hook, and as much as he tried for so-called 'conventional' mechanics, they did nothing to stop his hook. So, he went in search of the game's premier FADER of the ball—as the well as the very best ball-striker, maybe of all-time—Ben Hogan.

    Lee snuck into the grounds near the "little 9" at Shady Oaks Country Club in Fort Worth, Texas, where Mr. Hogan practiced. It was there that Trevino became convinced that Hogan controlled shots with his BODY, and he would have to learn to fade the ball with that in mind.

    Trevino learned that if he aimed way left, took it back as out and up as possible, and what he called "moved on the ball," he could hit a nice little push-fade.

    This 'move on the ball" was nothing more than what The Golfing Machine calls "hip slide" or AXIS TILT. Trevino's key thought in making this move was to get his right watch-pocket—near his right hip bone—PAST THE BALL prior to impact. This big move allowed Trevino to get his hands to the ball and, like I like to say, "HIT THE BOX."

    If you have enough forward lean at impact—and this can really only be done with an arched left wrist—you will have enough of an OPEN FACE at impact AND separation to hit the ball left-to-right.

    Interestingly, Trevino employed the "Doyle-Manzella Style" full roll with a flat left wrist.

    Many in Golfing Machine circles, including Chuck Evans and Ted Fort, think this "over roll" will HAVE TO cause hooks. But, at the "Three G.O.L.F. Guys and You" golf school held a few weeks ago, I showed—to Ted Fort's amazement—how to hit Trevino-like fades with the so-called over roll.

    Ted is an excellent ball-striker as a hitter with angled hinge action, and he formerly was a hooker with a type of full roll that was obviosly missing a KEY piece of the Trevino-Manzella puzzle:

    ENOUGH forward lean and ENOUGH Axis-Tilt to have an OPEN ENOUGH clubface...

    The REAL TRICK to Lee Buck Trevino's success!

    Whoomp there it is!!!! Hall of fame post!!!! My vote for Best Brian M post ever.

    Can you school us on the Doyle-Manzella Style Full Roll?

    Thanks man!


  3. #13

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    quote:Originally posted by rundmc

    Can you school us on the Doyle-Manzella Style Full Roll?

    Thanks man!

    Read the Never Slice Again article in the instruction section. Basically instead of allowing your left wrist to bend after the hinge and then doing your finish swivel, you are keeping a completely flat left wrist through tbe ball and the finish swivel and then letting it bend near around shoulder high at the finish.

    When brian taught it to me, i could keep the flat left wrist throughout the entire stroke: setting up with it flat and keeping it flat even into the finish. It was a great learning tool as to how to educate my hands, however it did put a lot of strain on my rotator cuff so i wouldn't do it 100% of the time. But again, it really taught me clubface control

  4. #14
    Senior Member vjcapron's Avatar
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    Brian,
    I assume that Lee Buck aimed the clubface at his intended target at address even though his body alignment was well open. Can you confirm?

    Is this your favorite swing pattern for developing a repeatable left-to-right ball flight ? Is this primarily a low-ball flight pattern or was his low ball flight a result of the amount of forward lean Lee needed due to the strong grip?

    In other words, if one were to swing like Lee with a more neutral grip, you probably wouldn't need as much forward lean to hold off the clubface, thereby producing a higher trajectory. Or, do you not even attempt a swing pattern like this without the strong grip?




    "The prospect that there was going to be golf in my day made me feel privileged and extremely happy, and I couldn't wait for the sun to come up the next morning so that I could get out on the course again." -Ben Hogan

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    quote:Originally posted by vjcapron

    Brian,
    I assume that Lee Buck aimed the clubface at his intended target at address even though his body alignment was well open. Can you confirm?

    Is this your favorite swing pattern for developing a repeatable left-to-right ball flight ? Is this primarily a low-ball flight pattern or was his low ball flight a result of the amount of forward lean Lee needed due to the strong grip?

    In other words, if one were to swing like Lee with a more neutral grip, you probably wouldn't need as much forward lean to hold off the clubface, thereby producing a higher trajectory. Or, do you not even attempt a swing pattern like this without the strong grip?
    Nono...you can do it with w/e grip you want. And yes a stronger grip will tend to have more forward lean/hit it lower....I think.

    Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
    "birdie_man" guy

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  7. #17
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    Thanks Birdie-- Fantastic-- Anybody have Trevino's book? The bookstores are out. How strong was his grip. V's to right shoulder? Did he use Hogan's grip?

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    I knew where one was, but it's wet now ....Orleans Parish Library on Read Blvd....

    Trevino's grip was strong, but not SUPER STRONG.
    All you have is your hand path, the force along that path, and torque about that path.


    That's your means for creating the proper D-Plane with the proper speed, for the desired shot.


    Golf Magazine Top 100 Teacher Brian Manzella's travels extensively teaching golfers and instructors, and his home base is English Turn Golf & Country Club in New Orleans, Louisiana

  9. #19
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    quote:Originally posted by Archie Swivel

    Thanks Birdie-- Fantastic-- Anybody have Trevino's book? The bookstores are out. How strong was his grip. V's to right shoulder? Did he use Hogan's grip?

    Arch
    I got it off ebay. I'll post some stuff tonight.

  10. #20
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    It'd be cool if someone could compare and contrast Hogan's grip in his 5 Lessons with that of the Manzella Neutral Grip and that of Trevino's. It seems that the "V's" are not the only factor since I can make the "V" point to my right shoulder with either the grip in the fingers or in the palms of my left hand. Hogan appears to want that grip in the PALM of the left hand but in the FINGERS of the right hand. To me, in the palm would seem to reduce those nasty snappers to a minimum. Any input on this would be appreciated.

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